Mirage (Re)build thread - Jerry

[Jerry]

Here is the start.

(If you register you can click on any picture to see full view)

[Jerry]

Day 1.


Long beach, Ca.


208

[Jerry]

Ok here is the first day bringing the car home.
Rolling chassis complete, front end, upper doors, lower doors, no rear body, no bulkhead, (or firewall). 1 windshield, no side pods.

[Jerry]

Chassis:



211

[Jerry]

The front upper shock mounts look pretty bad. The rear lower shock mounts look weak too. The rear springs must make weird noises in those spring buckets. I don't know I never drove one. All things I am changing. Shocks are blown and not rebuildable, all shocks and springs are getting replaced.

[Jerry]

Chassis front:

[Jerry]

I found an entire Mirage body for sale in Texas. This picture is in Texas. Paid for it and shipped it here. I thought I might make a rear body hatch. Much better to buy one, countless hours saved.

[Jerry]

Front of car is white, rear is yellow.
I sold some duplicate parts I did not need.
I kept 2 windshields, 2 upper doors, and 2 T bars.

The upper doors I might finish with 1 set with windows, 1 set with no windows.

[Jerry]

Crusty, sandblasted, powdercoated crinkle black.

[Jerry]

Crusty 40 years old:

219


blasted and powder gloss black:

[Jerry]

Bellhousing powder gloss black:

[Jerry]

Body mock up is a big job. Do it before you paint it. Many hours getting body parts located in position, hinging and latching. I have many more hours to go.


http://mantacarsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=521&stc=1

[Blueovalz]

WOW! that was a lot of work for one day :) . Great project. So where are you today? Is the last post pretty much where you are at?

[Jerry]

I have set it up for QA-1 coilovers on all 4 corners, powdercoated the frame, and am setting up 4 wheel disc brakes now.
Stay tuned and see how that unfolds .... I will keep going on this thread and get us up to present time.

Who will be next to start their build thread ? ? ?

[Jerry]

The 327 engine was hopelessly locked up.

So I bought this 350 crate motor with super low miles, for a super low price.

[Jerry]

There are great deals on motors out there. This shop here puts 600 hp LS7's in everything and no one wants an old iron engine like this ... they don't even want LS1's anymore!

After I drive it with the 350 and Corvair trans I might want to go LS and Porsche trans, I am not sure ... we will see.

I might want to add something else to the car or do nothing ...

[Jerry]

The motor I got was not fast enough for the owner of this '59 Corvette:


226

[Blueovalz]

Interesting to say the least. The LS2 crate motor I bought for my Mirage had 1500 miles on it, and was pulled back out of a '62 'Vette because the owner claimed the power was causing stress cracks in the body. He wanted to go back to the lower-powered gen I motors. I scratched my head on that (heck, put smaller tires on the back then), but it ended up being a good deal for me in finding a carbureted LS2 with the MSD ignition controller. I've been a Ford man all my life, but the LSx motors changed that after I finally got my hands on one and looked through the internals and it's machining and build. They really are great pushrod motors, with gobs of power, cheap to get lots more power, and lightweight.

http://www.fototime.com/735BEB3A75C9F3E/standard.jpg

[Jerry]

Great motor Terry.



Here is more powdercoating ...

[Jerry]

And more ...

[Jerry]

QA-1 shocks are available at jegs.com and they also are relabeled by Jegs and cheaper.
I have the shortest QA-1's on the front, single adjustable.
Jegs number 122-US301 Ultra ride with bearing ends & 300 lb 7" springs.

And Jegs on the rear, double adjustables.
Jegs number 555-64900 (tel:555-64900) bearing ends & 450 lb 9" springs.



The shocks and springs may not be the best for the weight of this car.
It's just my starting point, we will know more after we drive the car.




Rear coil overs.

[Blueovalz]

Will you be fabricating a bracket that mounts the QAs onto the top of the lower control arms?

[Jerry]

Yes.
And I if I have to, I will fabricate it 3 times before it is ok. :-)

[Jerry]

Pull the transaxle ...

[Jerry]

and then lift the motor ...

[Jerry]

Even if this front upper shock mount never breaks it just looks .... well ... I am pretty sure I know what you are thinking.

[Blueovalz]

Yep, mine looked a lot like that. In fact, the rear didn't even hold up to the trailer ride to the house before it failed. Being I had high aspirations, I decided then and there to gut everything and build it back up to my interpretation of "correct". That was 6 years ago, and many $$$$$ later (yes, build three to get a good one of whatever is being built), but the end is near, and paint has been purchased.



Jegs number 122-US301 Ultra ride with bearing ends & 300 lb 7" springs.

And Jegs on the rear, double adjustables.
Jegs number 555-64900 (tel:555-64900) bearing ends & 450 lb 9" springs.



The shocks and springs may not be the best for the weight of this car.
It's just my starting point, we will know more after we drive the car.

231

Rear coil overs.

I'm thinking you may be close. I've been running 275/450 (F/R) on mine, but felt it was too weak (especially for the front), so I've stuck a set of 450/550 onto the car based on some other analysis and the additional weight the car has taken on since 6 years ago. I may be comparing apples to oranges between the two cars in that there are so many factors that need to be considered in the spring rate calculation. I'm also using the QA1 double adjustables on mine.

So, how do you get an odd length of spring (7" & 9")? I suppose that may be a QA spring though. The one set of QA springs I used had several extra coils as compared to other springs I had, which for the same spring rate then required thicker wire, all of which presented a longer coil-bind length and excessive weight compared to the other coil springs I've used.

[Jerry]

Yes those are qa-1 springs. The front shocks I bought are the shortest qa-1's there are.
The rear jegs shocks are the shortest ones there are.

Front shock travel is about 2.5".
Rear shock travel is 3.88".

Wheel travel is slightly more in both cases because of the leverage ratio of the shocks in the suspension.

I don't think a Mazda Miata or the front of a Corvette ZR-1 even have this much travel and they are both heavier cars.

There are no sway bars, I can add them, this car is really low to the ground. Roll center is very low.
Maybe I will drive it 1st.

Terrys car is amazing. Everything is better. I could not do such a big project. I just need to mostly restore mine and that is plenty of work for me. It's more than you first think.

[Jerry]

So here is a better idea for those front upper mounts:

I did this computer drawing and I could cnc cut it.

[Jerry]

Ok Here is a shape that clears and attaches to the frame better.

[Jerry]

Rear

[Jerry]

Ok lets strip the frame down, cut off old mounts, and go to the welder shop ...

[Jerry]

The mounts get welded in.
The coolant will not be going through the lower frame rails anymore. My welder said there was rust in the frame that would have got in the waterpump, the engine block, the radiator, and probably ruined it.
The inside of the frame has been sprayed with rust ender. The Eastwood company sells rust ender that goes through a long hose and then comes out of a spray nozzel. This way you can coat way inside frame rails.

Then it goes for sandblasting and powdercoating!

[Jerry]

The frame is back:

[Jerry]

I bought new upper A Arms. Here is the first look at assembling, I have not put the coil on the shock yet here.

These shocks can be run inverted.

[Jerry]

Here you can get the idea of where we are going on the rear ....

[Jerry]

Bearing end mounts are used on all shock ends.

I am thinking about bump stops and limit straps or bump stops for top out.

[Jerry]

I cut out some brake adaptors .... (Thanks Neil)

And waterjet cut a couple of shock coil wrenches ....

[Jerry]

Back when I had the old engine in the frame I made a crank adaptor to force the engine to turn on the old 327 ....

Even after soaking for weeks, the engine is stuck and I gave up on that one.

It probably needs each piston hammered out one at a time, or even worse it broke and locked.

[Blueovalz]

looks like you've got a really good relationship with a machinist! I see what you mean by the motion ratio on the front (.6?).

[Jerry]

I've done the cnc, milling, laser, waterjet and some of the powdercoating.
The frame was too big for me to do it myself so for $600, a company sandblasted and powdered it.
My welding I don't trust, so I pay a welder who does that.

The ratio I believe is more like .75 on the front. Maybe 350 lb would be better? We will see how it rides. The springs are only $43 and I probably will buy another set or two later? Hopefully not.

[Sulley]

Jerry I have a number of questions:

1) Do you have a template you can share of the rear spring set up - I'm wanting to possibly imitate what you did so any info is helpful.
2) On the front where did you buy the upper A arm - do you have a link?
3) Do you have a template you can share of the upper mounts?
4) You kept the stock lower control arm? Any particular reason why?
5) Did you coat the inside of the frame/coolant rails yourself with the Eastwood product?
6) How are you now going to set up the coolant lines?

thanks

[Jerry]

1 Yes. is there a file format you want for cad, or do you want a picture and something dimensioned for scaling purpose?

2 ebay. yes I can send a link to a similar set. Or search "mustang 2 a arms tubular". You could pay more and get adjustable. some are wider than stock, some are stock size ...

3. yes.

4. I read there is less adjustablity with lower tubulars. You could buy Adjustable a arms there though. Tubulars are stronger, they mount stronger, the stocker my have more comfort and flex more with rubber mounting. Trade offs in comfort, accuracy, adjustability, work required to do it. The only adjustment I see is the trailing link rod length on the stock lowers.


5. yes. spray can with a long wand on it, or they have a wand that goes on a paint gun.


6. Two aluminum pipes down one side pod 1.75" dia, 1/16" wall thickness. It should radiate some heat too.

[Jerry]

Adjustable like this:

There are options on what you want to do. Easyer wheel alignment.

[Jerry]

Sulley,
If you do a Boxster transaxle your rear set up will probably be cut off and totally changed?

If you have a shop and they can plasma cnc cut or laser cut .... I need to give you a file format they can accept. DXF probably. A picture (template) and a cutting torch I guess has worked for years too.

[Jerry]

1 drawing emailed.

[Jerry]

Another emailed.

My browser crashes when I try to post it here. I'll try a different computer.

[Jerry]

I didn't like this mount, so I milled another pair out of steel ...

[Blueovalz]

Nice solution. How thick is the steel under the new mount. It looks like several well-welded plates?

[Sulley]

Thanks Jerry I received the files - well I've been able to find a company that can make axles with a corvette u joint on one end and the Porsche on the other. I think this should allow me to utilize the stock rear suspension. But I would still like to upgrade the rear suspension in the process along the lines of what you have done.

[Sulley]

Adjustable like this:

There are options on what you want to do. Easyer wheel alignment.


So this would just bolt through the frame for the lower control arm position?

[Sulley]

I didn't like this mount, so I milled another pair out of steel ...

If I missed it in the prior post my apologies but what or how did you source the lower mounts? You seem to be making fast progress on this.

Jerry where did you say you were from? Under MyProfile you can edit all your personal info and put a personal image in your avatar if you want.

[Sulley]

Jerry on the front are you using a stock Mustang II front spindle or did you do a drop spindle or something else?

[Jerry]

The Corvair trailing arms have a round disc welded on the old spring perch area. The disc is 1/4 steel 3" in diameter and welded on top and inside. The mount is steel milled out of a solid block. I could go with this or use this mount as a fixture to align two normal tab mounts that would look very conventional but really not be stronger. About the same.

Trying to build strong, and suggestions are always appreciated.

My upper A-Arms are stock width (track), and the spindles are stock, not dropped.

[Jerry]

Brakes ... I need some brakes now ... researching how I can get the right diameter discs front and rear.

11.5" rear 88 vette, front should then be 12 or 12.5 ....

I think I had an rc car that looked like this ...

[Ken Walsh]

Hey, guys, I've been unable to fully open your Thumbnail pics, so maybe I'm in error, here----are you intending to place an "inward load" on your half-shafts, and do you have a transaxle designed for that sort of loading? The Corvair diff was, so a upper "radius rod" was not needed. On my Porsche 930 transaxle, the diff case is NOT designed to handle any inward loading on the axles, and effectively needed an upper and lower radius rod (each one, from the suspension hub/upright to the upper and lower portion of the chassis. I don't know about the Boxster configuration (can't open the pics and drawings above), so you might have the same situation. Please check out the pics of my rear suspension (mid-gen Corvette hubs, brakes, flanges; fabbed Corvette half-shafts, machined shaft-to-differential-flange adapters, and the FIVE radius rods). Two rods go forward to the chassis behind the fuel tanks; one is above the half-shaft, another is below the half-shaft, and a rear radius rod controls rear track tow-in/out. It's been roadworthy over 150 MPH, so I'm comfortable with this design. (Nice, too, to have the stock Corvette brakes, bearing, and parking brake set-up.


294 295

[Sulley]

Hey Ken - are you logged in when you try to open the thumbnail pics? Also your attachments did not seem to work. I'd delete these and click on the paper clip which should take you to where you can upload images from your computer.

[Ken Walsh]

I was logged on, when I tried to "open" the Thumbnails. I saw the small Thumbnail pic, clicked on it, but never got the larger image opened.

I'm trying to send my pics again, as attachments to this..... Please let me know if you can view them..........
312 314 313

[Blueovalz]

I see three thumbnails, and all three are visible in a larger image when clicked on.

[Jerry]

Ken,
Those pictures can't be a Manta, I think by mistake you posted formula 1 car pix. (kidding).
Nice work. My car is going to use the Corvair X-axle. I am going to use new heavy duty u-joints because you don't want to see what happens to the wheel alignment if you break one.

[Sulley]

Pics look great now Ken! Q: Why did you hold back and cut corners when you did your suspension set up?! Just kidding looks amazing. I'll swap you a nice corvair set up for yours if you are interested!

[Ken Walsh]

I see three thumbnails, and all three are visible in a larger image when clicked on.

Terry, thanks..... I don't know what I did (PC magic, I guess), and got the pics working. I had posted these and others in David Savage's forum--do you want me to post some more on this forum?

[Ken Walsh]

Ahhh, got it--Corvair transaxle..... Yep, they are designed to take lateral loads on their half-shafts. As an aside, if you are planning on using the stock Corvair lower hub-to-transaxle link, you might want to replace thse with lengths of DOM tubing with a RH rod end on one end, and a LH threaded rod end on the other--this link will work like a large "turnbuckle" when you screw in/out the tubing, and make it easier to adjust the alignment of the rear end. (If you use this approach, don't forget to use "jam nuts" against the rod ends--to prevent the link from unscrewing further, this possible catastrophic results(!).

[Manta22]

Speedway Motors sells swaged steel tubes in varying lengths that are threaded RH & LH on the ends. They have rod end bearings too at reasonable prices.

[Jerry]

I think I have lower tubes made from DOM and they do have Heim joints on both ends.

I have a set of 1988 Corvette rear brake parts nearly ready to install. The rotors measure 12" to the edge and I thought I would be getting 11.5", we will see if they fit or not.

[Jerry]

Ok so the forum adaptors to hold the '88 calipers, require you get '87 rotors. They are 11.5" rotors and use the drum style e brake. We don't use that type of e brake.

[Manta22]

Ok so the forum adaptors to hold the '88 calipers, require you get '87 rotors. They are 11.5" rotors and use the drum style e brake. We don't use that type of e brake.

Jerry;

Something is wrong-- I used '88 Vette rotors and calipers on the rear of MANTA2. Those rotors are not the small drum variety. The adapter drawings that I posted are the ones that I used for the '88 setup.

For some reason the photo insert isn't working. Ill try again.

[Jerry]

I tried to insert a photo too.
Well I think we can agree 11.5" is a go and 12" is a no go.


picture worked.

The upper rotor is 88. Didn't fit.
The lower rotor is 87. Did fit.

The caliper is 88.

[Jerry]

Top view:


346


This disc was supposed to have a drum style e brake in it but it is right there on the caliper, ready for C4 e brake cables.

[Jerry]

Ok here is an early sneak peak of the front.
12.2" dia rotor.
Calipers are 4 piston, 3.2 lbs. Rotor set up is light too with alum. hubs.
GM wheel studs to match the rear.
The kit gives you bolts, new wheel bearings, pads, good value.

348

[Blueovalz]

Looks like the brakes are just about finished! I like the front set-up.

[Jerry]

I have swapped the rear calipers side to side because I want the e-brake cable routing up, not down.

Terry your car looks amazing, as does Neil's work.

The brake kit I bought for the front was this one:

[Jerry]

Time for a Mantacarsforum legal disclamer ...

Nothing on this thread, or any other thread at this forum constitutes advice or instruction on how build a car intended for on road use or off. The stories on this forum are for entertainment purposes only, and only are an account of our experience for which we take full responsibilty. Only fully certified shops should direct you with your build if you chose to do one and we don't even recommend you persue one, or drive fast, or even get out of bed in the morning home skillet.

You are responsible for your choices and actions, choose wisely and you do so at your own risk.

[Jerry]

Now where was I, oh yeah, on with the madness ...

[Jerry]

Got the shift linkage pretty much installed today.

[Jerry]

Some parts that need help

[Nidrahynnad]

Jerry

Did some attorney tell you that you needed a disclaimer? I am still from the school that you are responsible for your choices and actions...nobody else made you do it....just sayin'
Dan

[Jerry]

I just threw it in there so we are all covered, so lets see some other builds guys.
I would like to see your thread what you are working on.

[Jerry]

Master cyl.s and brake lines go on soon.

362363


I will drill and slot the rear rotors and add black paint later. And probably paint all four calipers red, later.

[Jerry]

I added a tab to the outboard side of the lower shock mounting. I don't think I needed it for strength, but it just looks more complete this way.

364

[Blueovalz]

Looks great. The double-shear was a good idea.

[Sulley]

Car is coming along well! Good suggestion we will ad the 'disclaimer' to the terms of service.

[Jerry]

New master cyl.s are in, hard lines going in, trans getting cleaned and painted black. I need to prep and paint engine too.

[Sulley]

Crusty, sandblasted, powdercoated crinkle black.

Jerry what is this part.

[Sulley]

Any recent pics. Any pics of the new cooling lines? Q: would your fabricator make a complete 2nd set of parts that he made for your car?

[Jerry]

The crusty and powdercoat part is a waterpipe that went up front at the radiator. (picture on post #9). I know, why not just get a u pipe with a tight smooth bend? Well I can later.

I have not put in coolant lines yet. I think 2 aluminum or 2 steel galvanized pipes through 1 side pod will work.

[Sulley]

Are you going to go through passenger side pod or driver? Also what are you doing for steering? Column, box, rack, etc.

[Sulley]

Are you changing bushings to all poly?

[Sulley]

Why did you opt to not use a drop spindle? Is there a disadvantage when doing that?

Soryy for all the questions.

[Manta22]

Blasting old parts and then painting or powder coating makes them look new! Great job!

[Manta22]

I've never heard of that bellhousing before; is it an aluminum aftermarket piece?

[Manta22]

You're welcome, Jerry. Using a waterjet is a good idea. I'll bet someone else would pay you for a set of those adapters.

[Jerry]

The water lines will go through the driver side. I am using the stock spindles I have, if I need to lower the front then that is an option. I am using rubber bushings, maybe I will change to poly if I need it.

The bellhousing adaptor looks the same as a Kelmark. It is a cast aluminum part that is from a company I have not heard of either.

I am putting a new slave cyl. on it now made for a 1962 chevy truck.

Engine and trans go in soon ....

[Jerry]

Front steering rack and column is from 1978 Mustang 2.

[Jerry]

Working on engine pully alignment right now.


384


More cleaning and parts needed here ...





(Polished alum heads and a polished Hilborn wouldn't look too bad right about now!)

[Manta22]

Now would be a good time to replace your water pump with a high flow balanced pump such as one from Edelbrock, Stewart, etc. It will help the cooling system quite a bit.

[Sulley]

I love these build thread updates. When I tear down my Manta Mirage I will start one!

So is this an LS engine? The valve covers look like an LS style. The heads looked like 'camel hump' heads. Looking great! You'll have to have it completed for the 'Manta Reunion'!

[Jerry]

The engine is a 350 Vortec.

Ya know, I bought and installed a new water pump.

Why didn't I buy a high flow aluminum pump? I don't know, but I am now.

See, your comments and suggestions are valuable people.

Would it make sense to get an electric?

The only things on the belt would be the crank and the alternator.
Is it hard to get a belt that short?

[Jerry]

When and where is the Manta reunion?

link?


NEVERMIND. Found it searching the word reunion on this forum.

[Blueovalz]

1) You can get some very short belts. I've used an alternator only with both V-belts as well as the grooved belts (serpentine).
2) I found the Manta reunion string, but it does not state a where or when. Is that TBD, or am I missing another string?

[Jerry]

1. Ok
2. TBD. You found it.

Sulley, we can't wait to read your build thread too ! It kinda helps keep the project moving I think.

[Sulley]

Well I threw the idea out there. I thought it might be pretty amazing to get a number of us together with our cars somewhere. I probably need a year to be where I want to on my car. We could do something central like Dallas but I don't want to highjack this thread....

[Manta22]

I'm not a fan of electric water pumps although they are sometimes necessary. Their biggest problem is that they don't flow enough to generate as much back pressure in the cylinder heads as a mechanical pump does. This pressure raises the coolant boiling point in the heads and keeps steam pockets from forming and creating hot spots. A good electric water pump draws a lot of current!

[Blueovalz]

Not sure if this addresses Neil's points, but I reverse-flow my LS, with the water going into the heads first. So perhaps the lower initial temperatures, plus the pressure drop from that water exiting the block, help prevent the issues stated with electric pumps. Thus far I've been very happy with my remote pump. Another feature I really like is that air in the coolant system is easily determined by a cavitation sound at the pump, that gets quieter as more air is removed from the system. Almost dead quiet when it's passing 100% water.

[Manta22]

The importance of coolant pressure in the heads is important when you are generating a lot of power for some period of time-- racing, climbing a steep grade, etc. Normal street driving is pretty moderate so an electric pump can work just fine. Expensive, though, compared to a belt- driven pump.

[Sulley]

Would an inline pump in combination with a mechanical pump be an option?

[Manta22]

It might work but why use both?

[Blueovalz]

I have the same sentiment as Neil. I also wonder what kind of flow restriction exists if one of the pumps isn't turning. If it becomes restrictive, then two pumps doubles the risk of a failure, but probably provides little needed additional flow to keep everything cool.

[Jerry]

I put the engine in. 1 man operation, just go super slow and keep checking clearance.

388

[Jerry]

Easy does it...

390


389

Putting in the transaxle and halfshafts next ...

[Blueovalz]

Progress is always good! Keep the updates and photos coming.

Terry

[Jerry]

I bought a flywheel for an '88 Camaro. This is a Vortec engine and a Vortec flywheel won't work, it is a 168 tooth. The old 327 flywheel won't work, the 6 bolt pattern on the crank is not the same. An '88 Camaro flywheel fits the Vortec crank bolt pattern and has the smaller outside diameter 153 tooth starter gear that fits inside the belhousing.

The flywheel that was there is a 28 lb I think, and the new one is a 17 lb.

I ordered a mini reduction starter that should be here in 1 more day. These have hole patterns to mount for 168 or 153 tooth.

[Manta22]

By using a mini- starter you will save quite a few pounds of weight and use less current to crank the engine. Series wound starter motors were used for years and work OK but the small gear reduction starter is a much better approach- especially as compression ratios go up.

[Jerry]

Upper left: 186 tooth flexplate that came on the Votec engine. -Gear too big
Upper right: 153 flywheel that came with the Manta on 327 Chevy engine. -Crank bolt circle pattern too big.
Lower left: New '88 Camaro 153 tooth 16.8 lb flywheel. -Fits.
Lower right: Mini reduction starter.

397

[Jerry]

Replaced the original u-joints. I think they are factory Corvair. See the neck area thickness? These thicker ones on the right don't have zerk fittings also.

It isn't just that you might have a high power engine, these are stressed from the rear wheels to some degree, and an integral part of the suspension.

It is easy to find Spicer heavy duty u-joints with or without zerk fittings.


Spicer part number ( removed, there are better ones later on this page ).



click on picture.
398

[Manta22]

That is a very good idea. Thanks for posting the part number, Jerry.

[Jerry]

I can't take credit for the idea, I read it from the V8 Corvair guys. Since someone broke one, that only points to the part being the weakest link (or those bolts backed out). Anyway the stock one looks weak. The Spicer looks good, I am not sure if there is a Spicer with the circlips on the outside, or if these can be used either way ... I am trying to find out more.

[Sulley]

Thanks for posting the updates as well as the part numbers. That helps novices like me!

[Jerry]

The Spicer u joints I showed will not work. See the groove near the black rubber seal? That is for an internal circlip and you can't use our external circlip on this one.

The 1310 series u joint is the size we use. It is also the size used on the driveshaft of a big block Corvette!

I was told also that if I use a heavy duty u joint I could end up now tearing up a more expensive half shaft now.
The Jeep guys want the u joint to break because it is cheaper.

Sorry if it is confusing at this point, but I want you to have the info!

I am not a jeep driver and I don't want one to break, these look good ...

[Jerry]

Choose a u joint that you like, buy American, not Chinese. :-)
This looks like it will be sorted out soon, it isn't that hard.

[Manta22]

Jerry;

I would not worry about breaking a Corvair rear axle; the u- joints are far more likely to break. If the axle fails (very unlikely) it is probably just going to twist rather than suddenly fail catastrophically.

[Jerry]

These are Spicers, heavy duty, I think they are forged, no zerk fitting, external c clip, I am going with these.

They are part number 5-1310X

471

[Jerry]

484

New starter has a 4-1 reduction for higher torque.
Everywhere possible get weight off the fat end of the car.

[Jerry]

Trans going in ....


489


488

[Sulley]

Looks good Jerry! What do you have holding the frame up suspended?

[Jerry]

It's on jackstands. There are two more now in the back since it is more rear heavy now.

[Jerry]

In the interest of promoting safety, don't do it the way I just did it, put the extra stands under the rear first, then put in the engine and trans. wink

[Jerry]

My camera does not like the lighting. Poor picture quality. The halfshafts and lower dog bone bars are in. With the lighting turned up the silver and chrome looks grey.

492

[Manta22]

Nice work, Jerry.

[Jerry]

Thanks Neil,

Morning lighting a little better ...

493

[Jerry]

These are junk wheels. Front wheels need to have less offset and there is too much toeout right now but it's going to be a fun gocart.

[Sulley]

That's a great overhead shot of the Manta Mirage frame. I saved this one!

[Jerry]

Thanks Sully.

I got the brakes and clutch bled and working.

[Jerry]

This helps me deal with the front body piece.

I need to be able to put it on the car, put it on a trailer, work on it and not scratch it ...




http://mantacarsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=516&stc=1

[Manta22]

That's a great idea, Jerry. Is the structure wood or metal?

[Jerry]

My picture quality and afternoon lighting is not so good.

Here you can see what's going on to answer that question.

My friend said that this frame for the car part is called a "buck".


http://mantacarsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=518&stc=1

[Jerry]

I think next I will make one for the rear. Maybe a simple smaller one.

[Blueovalz]

For my application, prior to cutting the front panel up into two separate smaller pieces, I used a similar arrangement (for both the front and rear panels) with a single long rope, 8 pulleys, and coated hooks on two steel tubes (the width of the body panel) which spaced the rope out the proper length, I lifted the body on and off the car that way (using the pulley system instead of the winch). This system allowed me to lift it evenly or tilt it as needed in the lift/lower work. Because it was a single rope threaded through the eight pulleys, it could be lifted/lowered in just about any reasonable angle, and still keep the hooks out of the way from interfering with the chassis fitment. The second photo shows the body lowered onto the car, with the tube/hooks/pulleys for the front lying on the floor in front of the panel. You can also see portions of the long single rope, threaded up down, over, up, down, over, etc to may a single long continuous loop (four "down's" visible in the photo)

http://www.fototime.com/757396665FF37BB/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/1445DDFAD70CC9F/standard.jpg


Later on in the project timeline, I fabricated a bar that would bolt onto the open rear panel (with a movement limiting catch at the top), that had loops on it to be used with a winch/strap to lift the panel off the hinges in a controlled, single person operation. It worked very well, so I'm planning on doing the same with the front panel as well. It can be bolted onto the panel is about 10 minutes, used to relieve the weight on the hinge pins which allows me to remove them, and then the panel is simply pulled away from the frame and lowered to the ground (see attachment and photo below)

Here you can see the reinforcement plates (at the inside edges of the rear vents, at the very bottom or very rear of this panel) which I used to attach the lift-bar. If you look closely, you can see the 3/8" holes where a bolt passes through each plate, and into the end of the lift-bar. The catch at the top is also bolt-on, which attaches to the horizontal reinforcement plates at the very front of the ram-tube opening.

http://www.fototime.com/EA2BA79C0E81E8C/standard.jpg

[Jerry]

It's nice to get the body parts way up so they don't take up 1 inch of your shop space when you don't need them.

It's tricks like that, that make guys in a garage able to do a project that complex.

I appreciate suggestions like these from anyone and everyone - Thanks

[Jerry]

Cleaning and scuffing fiberglass parts.

[Jerry]

The drivers tub has a metal plate I took out. It was cut out here to clear the lower front suspension. I am going to glass this. Also the bulkhead/firewall is warped in two areas and I am working on that.

http://mantacarsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=520&stc=1

[Sulley]

I don't recall seeing that in the passenger footwell of my Manta Mirage.

[Jerry]

You have different front suspension. This plate is getting tossed.
I am working on the bulkhead/firewall. Sanding out every gelcoat crack and filling. Gelcoat is nicer to work with than fiberglass. It's not too bad.

[Jerry]

I went to ebay for tail light lens' s.

568



Now everyone can see pictures on this forum, without logging in. And see full size if registered. Thanks Sulley.

It's getting hard to find these 1976 chevy van tail lights.
that's what this kit car calls for.
I polished out the stains on the white plastic bezels.

[Jerry]

I made a silicone mold.


569


That was fun now back to the real work.

[Jerry]

The orange car parts are from a Manta that was a track car in Texas. They cut out the tail light panel and ran the exhaust pipes out that hole. Now I am reworking ALL the fiberglass parts to like new, original, no body mods.

[Manta22]

The orange car parts are from a Manta that was a track car in Texas. They cut out the tail light panel and ran the exhaust pipes out that hole. Now I am reworking ALL the fiberglass parts to like new, original, no body mods.

Jerry;

I cut out the same panel to clear my transaxle. I may still have it here somewhere; if I do, would you like to have it?

Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ

[Jerry]

Neil,

I have the panel. Thank you for offering yours. Is that the 930 transaxle that is too long?

I am glassing in the panel now.

Jerry

[Manta22]

I'm using a G50 and my rear chassis is completely different.

Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ

[Jerry]

"The tail light licence plate panel is glassed in. I took a lot of time to make sure it is square and level in its place. Taking time now saves time later when doing final fillers as needed. The only fillers I have used up to this stage are long fiber filled or short fiber filled.

Glass mat used on the inside.

http://mantacarsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=702&stc=1

Now I need to get a small block and sandpaper and get this bevel finished really nice.

[Blueovalz]

That bevel on the rear panel was probably the hardest part of the bodywork I had to negotiate. Eventually I bought some Home Depot 1" angle aluminum, and put some PSA sandpaper on it and used it to finally get a straight edge and angle on the bevel, even in the corners (where the angle aluminum was cut at 45º to promote a sharp corner. It was a frustrating process prior to that. A short sanding block is pretty good once you get the bodywork shaped correctly. A long board (what I call an "idiot Stick" because it allows even a novice a better chance at a straight body) ensures long flat areas and long curves/corners are flat (something about the length of an air-file or the standard PSA paper). Once I'm ready for wet sanding, I start using the smaller blocks or pads. By then, it's a lot harder to sand waves or imperfections into the panels.

Some of my favorite hand tools to get a perfect body:

The best small sanding block I've ever used. The same size as a typical small sanding block:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Stikit-Attachment-Length-Yellow/dp/B000PENF3U/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1436657073&sr=8-20&keywords=3m+sanding+blocks

A great intermediary block that is longer than the small ones, but shorter than the idiot sticks:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-5441-Stikit-Hand-Block/dp/B000Q6NIJ8/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1436656952&sr=8-10&keywords=3m+sanding+blocks

About the best "long" sanding block out there:
http://www.hillas.com/Categories/3M-Abrasives-File-Fairing-Boards-Stikit/3M-Stikit-Hand-File-Board-05444-2-3-4-in-x-16-in-1-per-case.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw_YKtBRC7zZjFp8bF_foBEiQAfy igcy_aUB9_6Q2uQy-4gCjSC496S-ye6L__8-7KpRua4toaAi_t8P8HAQ

A good soft 600 grit or finer sanding block. It conforms to a lot of small curves and corners:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-05442-Stikit-Soft-Block/dp/B000XBFBB4/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1436656952&sr=8-7&keywords=3m+sanding+blocks

The old-style blocks where the paper is folded under and punctured by three nails works okay, but they rarely are perfectly flat. The 3M stuff is about as good as it gets.

[Sulley]

That was real creative with the rear tail lights!

[Jerry]

Prepping fiberglass parts.


709

Many more areas to fix.

[Blueovalz]

Not sure what I am looking at other than some vise-grips on the right side.

[Jerry]

The rear hatch. The back window is above the visegrip. Previous owner cut out this area, I am putting the glass back. Just 1 of many cut or drilled or damaged places that need to be redone.

[Jerry]

The hatch closes and does not look right on the passenger side.
From the drivers side I made a wood template.
Here it is, flipped over to the passenger side.

715

When I close the rear hatch the passenger side does not match up so good.

716

[Jerry]

The hatch is warped. The geometry of the wood is right. The fiberglass needs to be reshaped so it matches the template.

[Blueovalz]

When I was remaking my bodywork, I felt the OEM Manta body panels were not "warped", but simply laid on a asymmetric molds.

[Jerry]

I think you are right. That area does look asymmetric. The previous owner cut out the webbing, as if to clear the 45 deg roll bar. I glassed it and now I am reglassing it in a little different position.

When the webbing was cut, the hatch shell shape opened up some.

[Jerry]

like this:

717

the white area was mostly cut out. I glassed it back but the shape had opened up.

To bring it back I made the cut you see, pulled the side in, clamped it, and glassed a small tab.

Now I will remove the clamp and shut the hatch and check the work.


Better fit now is less bondo.

[Jerry]

When I raise the fiberglass hatch up it is pretty wobbly, flimsy. I thought about laying styrofoam piping around the perimeter, and glassing over it.

[Blueovalz]

I believe that is a bit of work, that increases the panel weight, and provides only marginal improvement in rigidity (and the added weight counters what you're trying to do. I ran into the same issues with my panel. For a stock panel, I would guess that one thing that may help is to bond a thin floor under the OEM sculpturing that rises off the panel to blend into the roll bar area. That area has a lot of vertically oriented shapes, so "boxing" both sides should help. Also find any space between the panel and the drive train in which you can bond vertical walls, while tying all of that to the hinge area.

[Sulley]

Looks good keep us updated!

[Jerry]

I put gas springs on the rear hatch. I am not sure I like them.
I am moving the pedals back. They are too far forward for me.

[Jerry]

This gas pedal it has is not what I want. I really don't want the cable along side my shoe ...
734




I got this one for about $30:

735





I need a plate with an angle in it to mount this up off the floor at the correct angle.

[Jerry]

Got this throttle cable. It is heavy duty. The cable is .100 " diameter and the housing measures .260 " Outside Diameter.

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ac720001&Store_Code=PC&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high

EDIT: Ok that cable is not too good. Too much drag even when oiled good. I got a better one by searching ebay "vw bug buggy morse" .

[Jerry]

More pedal !


736

[Sulley]

I wonder if a drive by wire system would be a good option?

[Jerry]

I have a carb, if I had an injection on it I would probably do throttle by wire.

[Jerry]

A lot of body paint prep work going on to the fiberglass parts.
I am working on several parts and several others are at a shop.

[Jerry]

Many parts got a gentle light abrasive "sandblast".
To clean and abraid the surfaces.

[Jerry]

I am doing bodywork.



Here is a cad drawing:

740

[Jerry]

I am still doing bodywork and paint.

Getting rid of pop up headlights and redoing them now.

Working on a Porsche 914 350C.I. V8 too.

That build thread is at 914world.com

Jerry

[Jerry]

Bought a Porsche Boxster S 6 speed transaxle.

And an Audi 01X 6 speed transaxle.

One for Manta, one for 914 V8.

[Lee71]

are you putting the Porsche 6 speed in the Manta Mirage ? looking forward to this I get my Manta in about 3 weeks

[Jerry]

I really don't know for sure which trans and engine I will put in there next.

[Lee71]

I really don't know for sure which trans and engine I will put in there next.



I have heard of the Boxster s Transaxle from Renegade Hybrids in their 914 demo which I believe had 400-500 hp seemed to be holding up well.. what about the Audi O1x?


QUOTE: from Renegade Hybrids


"To increase strength, reliability, and performance, we have designed the Cayman kit around a
Boxster S (http://i.viglink.com/?key=a26f3ac05fbe5144e5e0779bb53c507b&insertId=80fe0e66a0abdd18&type=H&exp=60%3ACI1C55A%3A20&libId=jvstvsbi01013y1k000DAoohctz5y&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.planet-9.com%2F987-cayman-and-boxster-modifications%2F108008-ls3-v8-cayman.html&v=1&iid=80fe0e66a0abdd18&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2FB00DKOUTAY&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dboxs ter%2Bs%2Btransaxle%2Bto%2Bv8%26form%3DEDNTHT%26mk t%3Den-us%26httpsmsn%3D1%26plvar%3D0%26refig%3D5a93da31e0 70411f85ec6a9c582ccbcc%26sp%3D4%26qs%3DAS%26pq%3Db oxster%2Bs%2Btran%26sk%3DAS3%26sc%3D8-14%26cvid%3D5a93da31e070411f85ec6a9c582ccbcc%26cc% 3DUS%26setlang%3Den-US&title=LS3%20V8%20Cayman!&txt=%3Cspan%3EBoxster%20%3C%2Fspan%3E%3Cspan%3ES%3 C%2Fspan%3E)
transaxle. The Cayman transaxle was engineered lighter with physically smaller gears and shafts, and the ratios were very short, which is not favorable or strong enough for the V8. The
Boxster S (http://i.viglink.com/?key=a26f3ac05fbe5144e5e0779bb53c507b&insertId=80fe0e66a0abdd18&type=H&exp=60%3ACI1C55A%3A20&libId=jvstvsbi01013y1k000DAoohctz5y&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.planet-9.com%2F987-cayman-and-boxster-modifications%2F108008-ls3-v8-cayman.html&v=1&iid=80fe0e66a0abdd18&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2FB00DKOUTAY&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dboxs ter%2Bs%2Btransaxle%2Bto%2Bv8%26form%3DEDNTHT%26mk t%3Den-us%26httpsmsn%3D1%26plvar%3D0%26refig%3D5a93da31e0 70411f85ec6a9c582ccbcc%26sp%3D4%26qs%3DAS%26pq%3Db oxster%2Bs%2Btran%26sk%3DAS3%26sc%3D8-14%26cvid%3D5a93da31e070411f85ec6a9c582ccbcc%26cc% 3DUS%26setlang%3Den-US&title=LS3%20V8%20Cayman!&txt=%3Cspan%3EBoxster%20%3C%2Fspan%3E%3Cspan%3ES%3 C%2Fspan%3E)
transaxle has repeatedly taken abuse over 600HP in our Boxsters, 914’s, & kit cars, and we have yet to see one fail. Even the gear ratios and optional upgrades are quite favorable to the V8 conversion using the Boxster S 6 speed transaxle. We understand that this means you will need to source a good used Boxster S tranny from a salvage yard, but your Cayman transaxle has value equivalent to the Boxster S in many cases."

[Jerry]

I have been to Renegade. Many cool ideas and cool cars there.

[Jerry]

By The Way, Years ago I bead blasted all the hardware and then nickle plated them.
Some we replaced with new hardware.
I am changing the headlights so they will be fixed and not pop ups.

[Jerry]

Doing body work, and painting, and paint correction.
The whole body single stage gloss white first, and then more colors added.

[Jerry]

3D printed adjustable mock up wheels. So I can buy the right rims and tires.
Something like 18X12 rear 18X10 fronts look about right.